Nuts & Bolts of Starting Faith Communities
I'm trying to figure out if there are some kind of missional ways that we can shape the nuts & bolts of our newly forming community. I'm interested in hearing how other emerging/missional communities have navigated some of the logistical/"institutional" details of community life-- and did you find ways that reflected missional values to accomplish them?
How did you start out handling money? -- did people contribute only cash; did someone step up as the "money person"; how did you have accountability about income & expenses-? Are there things you wish you'd done differently? How did these practices change over time?
Did you compensate any musicians? and if so, how did you deal with the tax implications of that?
How did you handle music copyright issues-- both legally and morally? Did you buy a music license, and if so, how early in the community's life?
We are renting space on Sunday evenings from an existing (waning) congregation. Do we need our own liability insurance, or are we covered by theirs? What have communities learned about this?
Have you incorporated as a 501(c)3 non-profit, and if so, at what point in your community's life?
Did you "nest" with an existing congregation, and what benefits and/or problems did that create for you? (I've been told that if we nested, for example, that contributions to our community could be tax-deductable; we'd be covered under the nest congregation's music license & insurance, etc.)
What other sorts of nuts & bolts things have we not even thought of yet?
How did you start out handling money? -- did people contribute only cash; did someone step up as the "money person"; how did you have accountability about income & expenses-? Are there things you wish you'd done differently? How did these practices change over time?
Did you compensate any musicians? and if so, how did you deal with the tax implications of that?
How did you handle music copyright issues-- both legally and morally? Did you buy a music license, and if so, how early in the community's life?
We are renting space on Sunday evenings from an existing (waning) congregation. Do we need our own liability insurance, or are we covered by theirs? What have communities learned about this?
Have you incorporated as a 501(c)3 non-profit, and if so, at what point in your community's life?
Did you "nest" with an existing congregation, and what benefits and/or problems did that create for you? (I've been told that if we nested, for example, that contributions to our community could be tax-deductable; we'd be covered under the nest congregation's music license & insurance, etc.)
What other sorts of nuts & bolts things have we not even thought of yet?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bet Hannon on
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Don, thanks for your thoughtful reply. It's these practical issues that are sometimes the hardest to deal with.
Your comment about musicians & paying the "professionals" is very helpful. The money & insurance stuff is not my strength, nor anyone else's on the beginning leadership team-- I really am praying someone who can guide us through those detailed mazes will surface.
Your queries about working with another church are extremely helpful-- one of the churches we could nest with currently has an interim pastor, the other has a pastor I'm pretty sure would like to think he is hip enough to contribute "wisdom" to a new church start. We have a lot of discernment to do there.
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Permalink Reply by Joshua Price on -
I think almost every single question you asked has a very strong IT DEPENDS attached to the answers...
Are you starting a church or a community?
Do you want to structure yourself like a business or a nonprofit or would you rather prefer being something else?
Do you want what you're doing to be the source of income for anyone?
Do you think there is a strong possibility that the strengths of the people He has already sent you ought to flavor the priorities?
If you intend to become a legitimate thing with a paid staff, and a tithing structure (where tithing here ALWAYS means money), and insurance policies, and a listing in the yellow pages, then there are plenty of "church planter" resources out there.
If this is the case, I think you're really looking to plant a church but like using the word community.
But if you're looking to put together a community of people that isn't a church, then all of those answers to all of those questions, I think, are radically different.
Can you tell me more about what you want to be?
-joshua
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Great questions, Joshua! I don't know that the division between the two is totally B&W, but your questions made me think. For instance, we don't intend on having paid pastoral/program staff or a building-- so I think we are leaning in the direction of community. But there are some expenses along the way (like our very small rent for meeting space), and we will have to figure out how to deal with some form of pooled money or shared expenses. And the people who are coalescing will definitely discern the directions. But we are clear that we want to follow any legal requirements (for instance, we bought a music copyright license), as well as just (should we pay the musicians?). In this discussion, I was hoping to get some wisdom from those who have done this sort of thing before us and hear about their experiences.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Stavlund on
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Hi, Bet. Thanks for asking these questions, and I'm sorry to hear you can't make it in April. Hopefully you're getting some help in this space.
I just wanted to second the many who have commended doing something very simple to start. Not only does this keep your group more productive toward the areas you'd like to explore, but it also has the benefit of being very uninteresting to those who would come with agendas and other kinds of trouble. If you can be organic, you can allow people to start their own initiatives and let them organically live or die as they are useful.
I also concur with Don's wisdom/skepticism about partnering with other churches. I don't speak from personal experience, but from talking to other people who are starting partnering kinds of efforts. Typically, folks see warning signs of trouble from the start, and try to ignore them. After which point they encounter some serious frustration. Be very careful about who you're hooking up with, and talk about everything that you might not want to talk about. And don't trust yourself, either-- make sure you have some key people helping you with this important step of discernment.
Best wishes.
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Hi Mike! Thanks for the reminder about organic initiatives. Since we are just starting out, it feels a bit chaotic as folks are checking us out, show up, then don't show up, etc. And it's tempting to try to move into "organizer" mode rather than listening/encouraging mode. And I think you're right, there are those with agendas (and maybe trouble?) who have already come and (thankfully) have gone.
And thanks for the wisdom on partnering too. There have been a couple of other attempts (by other folks) to start missional communities here in Fresno, both of them with ties to larger, existing congregations and both of them have fizzled. As I talk to folks who were involved in those groups, I think that the connection to the partner church had a role to play in the frustrations. Also, we are hoping that missionally-minded folk from both mainline and evangelical backgrounds will find their way to Bread of Life, and we don't want a connection to a church from either background to be a stumbling block for that.
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Permalink Reply by James Henley on -
Hi Bet,
Although I'm not particularly well qualified to answer any of your important practical questions (my community was lucky to find it's home by partnering with two established denominations who have provided both financial and practical support) - I would contribute this quick piece of advice:
If your aim is to form a community which is mission-oriented, my advice would be to, right from the start of your community, intentionally choose to invest more effort, time and money into the rest of your community life than into your Sunday gathering. Organise your weekly gathering in such a way that it runs itself as much as possible, and free yourself to invest as much as possible into the rest of the week. Where you focus your energy will impact on the subconscious vision and motivation of your whole community - so set the tone early and place the actual real practice of living missonally above your gathered worship time.
Good luck with your missional adventure!
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Richards on -
Oh, yes... As I read over your shoulder, Bet, and some that have responded, I find myself in the tension of "organizer" mode vs. mid-wifery; how to be or not be connected with other churches/communities; and where my energy is going - thanks for the reminder James. I'm attempting to juggle the vision I feel God has given me, my understanding of the conversations and direction the community wants to go, letting that happen and watching things seemingly be put back in my lap. I think our group is used to having one person lead - the model of church they're familiar with - or they are so used to being in a place where they are expected to lead, that they swing the other way and want someone to tell them where, what, how, etc. I've also started to think about how time-consuming, how exhausting it is, to be a part of the direction of a group. So maybe that's part of the "problem". Basically, I'm trying to figure out how to be a part of this community in such a way that I'm helping to shape it, without playing the the traditional pastor role... as well as wondering if there's still something good in some of the old structures. Oh, boy, I'm tired just thinking about it!
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Jeff, this is EXACTLY what I'm holding too! There are the nuts & bolts, but this is the larger question (impacting the nuts & bolts) that's always on my mind and heart: holding the vision I've glimpsed and my sense of call around that; trying to gently nudge/encourage the group in that general direction without being controlling; trying to discern where the Spirit it moving & discern if I need to let go of any wish-dreams for the community (Bonhoeffer); trying not to default into traditional pastor mode when there seems to be a leadership vaccum at the moment-- although wondering if a one-pastor model that functions out of a radically different paradigm might hold some possibilities.... It is exhausting
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Richards on
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I just noticed that you responded.
Yes! Amen! It's so wonderful to know I am not alone. Thanks, Bet.
Our group just had an "evaluation" of how things are going and where we'd like us to go. Right now, everyone is a leader in their own way. My role seems to be one of "enabling", pushing the envelope a bit theologically, ecumenically, etc and just plain, old using my gifts. Perhaps if we gain more members and/or if others participate in our gatherings, we'll look more like a Presbyterian model. We'll see, I'm/we're still playing with that one.
I haven't read a lot of Bonhoeffer. Are you referring to Life Together, or another work?
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This is a long quote, but I think it gets at the heart of what we've been noticing. It's from "Life Together":
"The serious Christian, set down for the first time in a Christian community, is likely to bring with him a very definite idea of what Christian life together should be and to try to realize it. But God's grace speedily shatters such dreams. Just as surely as God desires to lead us to a knowledge of genuine Christian fellowship, so surely must we be overwhelmed by a great disillusionment with others, with Christians in general, and, if we are fortunate, with ourselves. By sheer grace, God will not permit us to live even for a brief period in a dream world. He does not abandon us to those rapturous experiences and lofty moods that come over us like a dream. God is not a God of the emotions but the God of truth.
Only that fellowship which faces such disillusionment, with all its unhappy and ugly aspects, begins to be what it should in God's sight, begins to grasp in faith the promise that is given to it. The sooner this shock of disillusionment comes to an individual and to a community the better for both. A community which cannot bear and cannot survive such a crisis, which insists upon keeping its illusion when it should be shattered, permanently loses in that moment the promise of Christian community. Sooner or later it will collapse. Every human wish dream that is injected into the Christian community is a hindrance to genuine community and must be banished if genuine community is to survive. He who loves his dream of community more than the Christian community itself becomes a destroyer of the latter, even though his personal intentions may be ever so honest and earnest and sacrificial.
God hates visionary dreaming; it makes a dreamer proud and pretentious. The man who fashions a visionary ideal of community demands that it be realized by God, by others, and by himself. He enters the community of Christians with his demands, sets up his own law, and judges the brethren and God Himself accordingly. He stands adamant, a living reproach to all others in the circle of brethren. He acts as if he is the creator of the Christian community, as if his dream binds men together. When things do not go his way, he calls the effort a failure. When his ideal picture is destroyed, he sees the community going to smash. So he becomes, first an accuser of his brethren, then an accuser of God, and finally the despairing accuser of himself.
Because God has already laid the only foundation of our fellowship, because God has bound us together in one body with other Christians in Jesus Christ, long before we entered into common life with them, we enter into that common life not as demanders but as thankful recipients. We thank God for what He has done for us. We thank God for giving us brethren who live by His call, by His forgiveness, and His promise. We do not complain of what God does not give us; we rather thank God for what He does give us daily... In the Christian community thankfulness is just what it is anywhere else in the Christian life. Only he who gives thanks for little things receives big things. We prevent God from giving us the great spiritual gifts He has in store for us, because we do not give thanks for daily gifts.
We think we dare not be satisfied with the small measure of spiritual knowledge, experience, and love that has been given to us, and that we must constantly be looking forward eagerly for the highest good. Then we deplore the fact that we lack the deep certainty, the strong faith, and the rich experience that God has given to others, and we consider this lament to be pious. We pray for the big things and forget to give thanks for the ordinary, small (and yet not so small) gifts. How can God entrust great things to one who will not thankfully receive from Him the little things? If we do not give thanks daily for the Christian fellowship in which we have been placed, even where there is no great experience, no discoverable riches, but much weakness, small faith, and difficulty; if on the contrary, we only keep complaining to God that everything is so paltry and petty, so far from what we expected, then we hinder God from letting our fellowship grow according to the measure and riches which are there for us all in Jesus Christ."
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer in Life Together
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